8th Edition

It's dark. It's grim. There's a big eye that's terrorizing. Suck it, Sauron!

8th Edition

Postby 92acclude » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:49 pm

It's gud.
http://dylangould.blogspot.com/

2017: 63
2016: 120 | 2015: 68 | 2014: 103 | 2013: 124 | 2012: 176 | 2011: 221
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby mace_ace » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:19 pm

I'm liking the rules so far and looking forward to getting my first game in this Saturday.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby SRM » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:47 am

A++, would ham again
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby tinfoil » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:25 pm

Yup, watched a few games now, and I'm back in this crazy craze.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby afeinman » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:29 pm

How likely is it that I can make a valid list out of models I already have?
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby Thunderjaw » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:59 pm

Review Time: Initial Thoughts on 8th Edition.

My Rulebook and all five of the army books came in Saturday, but due to me being out of the house combined with an insane FedEx guy who put the box on my BACK porch, I didn't get to start digging into this until Monday evening.

Starting Position: In general, I don't like when a new edition of a game completely invalidates everything that came before it. That being said, it is sometimes necessary. 7th Edition 40k was a bloated and complicated mess. It felt like it was all over the place and while players had tons of choices, that same choice bonanza made it difficult to keep track of what was going on with the game. Add that to the amount of paperwork you had to do to run some armies and it was an unmitigated mess.


Current Position: If you've got to invalidate everyone's codexes, then this is the way to do so. Pretty much everything I've read so far I've liked. It feels like they put a significant amount of thought into everything they've done. There's definitely some compromises, but overall the rules feel easy, clean, and useable.

Let's cover a few cherry picked thoughts...

1. Can I use all my stuff? Your list can literally include whatever the hell you want it to. The new formations/force orgs will allow you to take what you want, where you want, how you want. There's a standard force org that looks much like what we've had forever. There's a patrol one that is basically the old Allied Detachment. There's a Battalion level one that's for big games. There's one that allows extra heavies. There's one for more fliers. More formations. More HQ. Heck, there's even one for taking a single unit. They add or subtract a new form of "currency" called Command Points, but those aren't super critical. They just give you some cool tricks in game.

2. How do the points work? want to play kind of fast and loose? Use the "power levels" of the units to build your army. Power levels tend to hover in the 3-20 values and represent relative strength compared to other units. Think of them as a "quick and dirty" points values. If you want to be more traditional, you can use the full points values in the back of the book. Your choice.

3. Flavor and Fluff. They removed a ton of the minutia rules that gave flavor to the game but at the same time also removed a lot of complexity. Gone are the chapter specific rules for the most part. Gone are the marks of Chaos (for the most part). Somehow though, they removed all that stuff without actually removing the feel. Yeah, there's no White Scars Chapter Tactics. Instead if you take a Marine Captain and decide he's a White Scar, then he gains the "White Scars Chapter" keyword. And so do all your other marines. Any special <CHAPTER> abilities then affect only the same chapter... so White Scars. It works the same way for Ork Clans, Tau Septs, Eldar Craftworlds, etc etc. You get the feel of the flavor without the complications of the various rules. And without the balance effects. This sounds like it should suck. It doesn't. At least in my opinion. The system looks good. I like it.

4. What's the World like? Roboute is alive. Magnus is stalking the land. There's a couple of artistic images that look like Mortarion and Leman Russ might be showing up. Eldrad lives. All the named Daemons of Chaos have returned. Abaddon is still a bad ass. There's some "foo-foo" marketing changes... The Eldar are now the Aeldari. The Dark Eldar are now the Drukhari. These will make for great trademarks and eventually we'll call them the new names just like we did when the Imperial Guard got all hoity toity on us. There's some seriously cool stuff in there. Aeldari get some characters with special abilities against Necrons. The new Aeldari god hates Slaanesh. Slaanesh seem to be being spun more towards "excess and sensory overload of warfare" rather than "yeah, boobies!" (I called that one!). The world is pretty freaking cool. I'm not sold on "Oh, I've got a ton of Clone Trooper Marines in storage", but the PRimaris are cool and the rest of the world GW is spinning up seems worthy of their past traditions.

5. Rules. The rules are like maybe 20 pages. There's a huge section of "Advanced Rules" which are mostly detachments, missions, tactical objectives, etc. You can learn this edition in 5 minutes. The biggest changes are hit rolls and wound rolls. They've streamlined that all down. I like it... it seems to work well.

6. Psychic powers. The shit I bitched about in 6th/7th is mostly gone. Powers are back to what they used to be... simple 2d6 rolls with a target number. Everyone's powers are trimmed down. Basically everyone gets a shooting power, a debuff and a buff. There's no balance issue. No Jaws of the World Wolf to remove your 300pt Great Unclean One. No Invisibility to prevent you shooting at the Chaos Legions screaming towards your lines. Just simple, easy powers that work. No random rolls. Pick what you want. It's cake. Me Likey.

7. Wounds, Saves, Armor, Oh My. Armor Values are gone. Everything has wounds now. Rhinos have 10 wounds and a 3+ save. Killing things is simple and clear. There's no "Well, you get a save unless X happens in which case you only get an invuln save unless your opponent rolls a 6 in which case it's rending." Fuck all that. The new saves are simple, clean and easy. The rules are full of wording that's pretty clear and concise and it's written in a consistent style that should minimize the assholery from rules lawyering.

I'm tired of writing, so I'll leave you with my final thought.

I like what GW has done. Continuing down this path bodes well for the future of the rules.
++$ Brad
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby mace_ace » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:48 am

afeinman wrote:How likely is it that I can make a valid list out of models I already have?


You absolutely can. Not only valid, but viable.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby mace_ace » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:50 am

Good write up Brad. One thing that should also be said is that while they've removed chapter tactics and such that the codices will re-incorporate them. I'm thinking from everything that I've read that they'll be similar to the Traitor Legions book that was released last Winter.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby Thunderjaw » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:08 am

Yeah, my point was more along the lines of "I've lost stuff, but I don't FEEL like I've lost stuff". Dunno if that makes any sense... I remember when they released that horrible Chaos Dex that turned CSM into "Renegades". They lost all their fluff and identity and uniqueness and felt very bland and washed out. This edition doesn't have that feel. It's probably because they seem to have gone out of their way to keep Special Characters and have in fact transferred a lot of the old Chapter specific stuff into "bubble" abilities that work off the characters.

The end result is pretty nice overall and I really like it. The Space Wolves feel like Space Wolves. The Black Templars feel like Templars. The major Chaos factions feel viable as well. There's not the level of depth I'd like to see from the non big four Chaos marines, but that'll come in time and focusing on the main four is more than enough for a starter set.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby mace_ace » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:39 am

Oh I understand what you're saying and I completely agree. Right now I can still build n Imperial Fists list that feels like Imperial Fists even without the Chapter Tactics. To your point though I can't build a Night Lords list that feels appropriate other than loading up on Raptors and Warp Talons, which I suppose I can do with six FA slots in that particular Detachment/Force Org, but there isn't really a lot of feel there. perhaps because they don't have any legion specific units or special characters like the SWs have.
Not a huge deal though since I can indeed play them right now, and more flavor seems to be coming soon.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby Thunderjaw » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

YEp. Chaos is lacking. It just doesn't feel as lacking as it has in the past. Specifically when you're down to the "background chapters": Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, etc. The framework is there to build a rough analog list but you've got to provide some elements of the fluff yourself.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby SRM » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:27 pm

I imagine a lot of the chapter/regiment/legion rules will be in respective codices for any given army down the line. Kharadon Overlords get them in AoS after all.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby afeinman » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:10 pm

Dammit.

How likely am I to get Danger Planet opening up in my town again?
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby mace_ace » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:15 pm

For a place to buy or play? I'm not that far from you, and I have tables and terrain, but I ain't selling shit.
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Re: 8th Edition

Postby tinfoil » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:54 am

Played my first game of 8th last night with Jack: daemons v. orks (or whatever the hell it is GW is branding the greenskins!).

I played a summoning list: started with a unit of horrors, a herald of tzeentch, a couple of chaos sorcerers, a Soul Grinder. And summoned in the rest of my army.

I am so psyched! I've always loved the summoning concept. But it got to be a real drag playing it in 7th edition, since it amounted to getting free stuff and disadvantaging my opponents in a game-broken kind of way. Now, I have to "pay" for what I summon. Not only in unit costs, but in the (just about inevitable) loss of mortal wounds to those characters foolish enough/reckless enough/ambitious enough and/or sufficiently sinister/deluded to invoke the "assistance" of the Ruinous Powers... It plays like the narrative! And, it's a fair and balanced game mechanic!

Albeit, one that can go spectacularly well or spectacularly not-so-well. Last night, for example, it bit Jack in the ass. On my second blood sacrifice (this one undertaken in the name of Khorne) I rolled triple sixes. Which cost me d6 mortal wounds (for rolling triples), but which pleased the God of Skulls 'n Such sufficiently to summon a Bloodthirster to my cause!

This creature in successive turns ripped apart a battlewagon, then filet-ed Jack's War Boss.

Now, per the new rules, I had to pay full points to coax him to my cause -- which made it feel a lot less broken than a 7th edition version of things did. I hadn't planned on getting a full-on Thirster; at the time, I was expecting enough points for something like a Herald on a Juggernaut. Still, I had the points left in my reserve pool for the big guy, and shifted my plans accordingly.

Though it's true I did benefit from one great stroke of good fortune: I rolled a "1" on my perils role. The sorcerer survived!

If the sorcerer had died, that too would have felt "narrative." And if my dice had decreed something less than the Thirster -- well, that's Chaos. Indeed, it would be a great mistake to plan or even hope for enough points in a roll of three dice for something like a Greater Daemon.

Whee! I'm really liking the feel of the new rules.
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