Cody's Chaos Attempt

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Cody's Chaos Attempt

Postby Lucyth » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:56 am

So this is my first attempt at a new list in a long time. I’ve never played Chaos and I’ve had an on-again-off-again relationship with Marines. In other words, I have little to no clue what I’m doing. I’ve picked Alpha Legion for the theme, and I’ve got a few core concepts behind the list I want to generate.

First off, I’m only going to use marks of Khorne and Tzeentch. Nurgle and Slaanesh are too depraved and abnormal for the shadowy Legion that needs to blend in Imperial Space.

Khorne is ok, because Marines are often depicted as descending into a battle lust and it seems legit by the Codex Astartes. Khorne is just a celebration of that, and he is after all depicted as the most martial of Gods.

Tzeentch is (in my opinion) fitting for Alpha Legion, because the Legion are masters of deception, guile, and operating from the shadows. Tzeentch is key, because in my head I see the Alpha Legion in a constant game of maneuvering with Tzeentch to keep themselves from succumbing to complete “Chaos-ification.â€
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Postby Thunderjaw » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:52 am

I like! More thoughts later when I wake up. Generally though, I find Khorne and Tzeentch to be a good combo... not necessarily from a historical fluff perspective, but it definitely fits the newer fluff where Tzeentch manipulates everyone, including the other Daemons.
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Postby Brutal Legend » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:55 am

Welcome to chaos marines. You're going to love it here!

The defiler and landraider combination is not terrible, in fact it might work out very well for you. I remember trying to use the landraider as an anti-tank unit for a while without anything to go in it or with it. It's not a terrible strategy and could yield some nice results, but expensive.

The khorne terminators look really good. Perhaps another power fist or chainfist, and maybe a few combi weapons.

I think you could do a little better with you chaos marine champion's weapons. Also, why just 1 plasma on that squad? You got to give another special or a heavy to them.

I also think perhaps the Chaos Lord deseves more than a dinky power weapon, and I would say the same for the Dark Apostle.

Your cultists are loving flamers right now. So you expect them to get in close. Perhaps their champions should get some wargear to help them in an assault as well.

I'm just sort of pointing to the spots where you could beef things up a little.
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Postby Thunderjaw » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:06 am

Cultist Champions can only get shotguns. Don't ask me why... You'd think he'd at least get gift of mutation or something.
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Postby afeinman » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:36 am

That's a lot of cultists! :D

I love the Boons, but I'm confused how they fit into your "no mutations" theme. Maybe that's part of the "struggle" to remain pure?

Looks like your Land Raider is your only long-range firepower--and it's unlikely to be used in that role (I'm guessing your plan is to use it to dump the Terminators on people's heads). While the Rhinos will get you down the board a ways, just think about what you'll do if you end up playing long-ways, like 1/3rd of missions end up being these days. I guess "slow advance!" might work, but it might not.

Anyway, looks like fun, looks like it'd be interesting to play against...
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Postby Lucyth » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:52 pm

afeinman wrote:I love the Boons, but I'm confused how they fit into your "no mutations" theme. Maybe that's part of the "struggle" to remain pure?


You're right. As opposed to Mutation of Chaos, I see them as Enhancements of Chaos. Meaning, no mutation in the physical sense. This is a grey area that I'm working on. Perhaps it could be viewed in the same way as the Vows of the Black Templars? Maybe the Emprah is throwing the Legion a bone in disguise? I'll work on it.

I just really love random tables (a la Bloodbowl) and I want to play with a few of them from the get-go.

I've thought about subbing the Defiler out for a Helbrute and a Las-Pred. I'd have to knock about 20-30 points off the list, but that's workable. That'd give me a little long-range support, but the initial idea was to have a mobile army that'd quickly bring the enemy to bear: no pussyfootin, just hit and done. But Las-Preds have always held a special place in my heart. So that's a variable.


I'm worried that I've created a softie list because no one's showed up to tell me how much it sucks. Which can only mean that everyone wants to beat up on this list... <shifty eyes>
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Postby Lucyth » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:57 pm

afeinman wrote:(I'm guessing your plan is to use it to dump the Terminators on people's heads).


Naturally. The Lord is going to chill with the 9 man squad. And the Dark Apostle is gonna hang out with the unmarked Cultists and remain within 6" of the Khorne Cultists. Ld 10 cultists and he bestows the Zealot rule on the Unmarked Cultists. Sweeeet. Still thinking about making him Khorne so the Khorne Cultists are ridiculous.. mehhhhhh..

afeinman wrote: What you'll do if you end up playing long-ways, like 1/3rd of missions end up being these days. I guess "slow advance!" might work, but it might not.


I think the Flat Out rule will help negate this somewhat. You can really feel those extra 6" there.

And that's what she said.
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Postby Exokan » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:57 pm

Are you going for a themed/fluff list or an effective list?

I ask because some of your choices don't seem very Alpha Legion to me (but to be fair we may have very different interpretations of the Legion, and I could be viewing them from a heresy era view point.)

Thematically I dislike the Boons and Marks. I also don't see the Alpha Legion using Termi's very often. They'd be on standby to crunch the shit out of an enemy when an op gets out of hand, or be used as an efficient way to clear a room or three but yeah... an eight foot tall super solider in super-huge tactical Dreadnaught armor doesn't seem that subversive...

Being Alpha Legion I'd like to see two HQs of the same type (but with different wargear). Huron may also be an option only because he automatically lets you infiltrate dudes. I like that chaos Alpha stir up cults to cause confusion, but I also like the heresy idea that they'd have well trained human operatives giving assistance. It'd be cool to see a Primaris Psyker and a team or two of IG veterans... maybe even a Valk.

I suppose this is all getting away from your original list. All the Khorne stuff could work if you simply said that its a World Eaters warband and an Alpha Legion warband together. Then you could use the Termis, Berserkers, & Boons without needing to really manipulate the fluff much.

I dunno if you were going purely for a fluffy list, my ideal army would be as follows (with regards to points I guess).

2 Dark Apostles
1 Squad of Chaos Veterans
1 Chaos Marine Squad
2 Cultist Squads
--1 Primaris Psyker
--1 Veteran Squad (camo cloaks w/ Snipers or just Demo)
--1 Valkyrie
--1 Veteran Squad with either Autocannon or Lascannon
1 Havocs
Maybe one Dread and a Rhino or two.

Anyways, interested in seeing where you go with the list. And models. Pump out some models!
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Postby Lucyth » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:13 pm

I think we see Alpha Legion differently in terms of how it plays out on the table top.

If I'm playing 40k with Alpha Legion, it means that it's a big operation where the big guns come out (Dreads, Termies, etc.) and it's all or nothing. This does happen in the fluff, though it's more infrequent than other chaos bands.

If I'm playing KillZone then it's definitely a smaller operation which would require high amounts of subterfuge.


And I'll confess, I am trying to balance theme and effectiveness. You have me thinking, and I might step back on a boon or two; maybe even axe the Berzerkers for something else to bring the theme more in line.

I've thought about utilizing Huron for the Infiltrate ability, but I'm wary about it for some strange reason.

And I never thought about allying IG. Basically because they lose the benefits of the warlord abilities and such due to only being Allies of Convenience. But the more I think about it the more I'm tempted.

Thanks for the input, Mike.
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Postby Lucyth » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:15 am

I keep mulling this over. I also keep thinking about what Mike pointed out. I think I've tweaked this list a bit too much in the "weak" direction, though it is highly thematic.

It's still 2000 points, but to get the "Ideal list" I had to use an Extra HQ slot. I can drop the Dark Apostle and swap in another Vet Squad, but the Dark Apostle is iconic for the massive amounts of Cultists.

The only thing "Off" theme wise is the Khornate Termies. I'm quite entranced with them, as they remind me of my beloved BT termies, so it's a choice of power and nostalgia for me there. I also have an idea for a story concerning those chaps... so I think it's possible to fluff them into this list.


Try #2

Huron Blackheart - 160 (Because Infiltrating/Outflanking is Alpha)

Dark Apostle - 105

(Allied) IG Company Command Squad - 115
- Camo Cloaks
- Missile Launcher
- Astropath


CSM x 10 - 238
- 2 x melta gun
- CCW
- Rhino
- Power Sword
- Veterans

CSM x 9 - 217
- 1 x Plasma
- CCW
- Power Maul
- Veterans
- Rhino

(Allied) IG Veterans x 10 (Forward Sentries) - 115
- 3x Sniper
- Camo Cloaks

Cultists x 30 - 145
- 3x flamer

Cultists x 30 - 145
- 3x flamer



Termies x 5 (Khorne) - 240
- 4 x 2LC
- 1 x PF
- Mark of Khorne
- Icon of Wrath
- Vets

Helbrute/Dreadnought - 130
- TL Lascannon


Land Raider - 230

Predator - 140
- Lascannon Sponsons
- TL Turret Lascannon

~2000 pts.


Tactically speaking I worry I have not enough AT and too few Armored pieces myself (4 + 1 Dread). Though If I am able to outflank a CSM squad or two, it makes that concern moot.

Any wisdom or suggestions are welcome!!
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Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:17 am

Lucyth wrote:Tactically speaking I worry I have not enough AT and too few Armored pieces myself (4 + 1 Dread). Though If I am able to outflank a CSM squad or two, it makes that concern moot.


I think the last part of that statement rings true.

Thematically I like the use of Huron to gain Infiltrate/Outflank for Alpha Legion and he's not a bad character to use now. However 9and this is purely subjective) I don't like the use of a Dark Apostle in an Alpha legion army. Religious zealots don't seem to fit the fluff for them at all. But hey, they're tactically great to lead a cultist squad. But if you're going for cheap bodies I think the allied IG are a better buy thematically and less chaosy.

As for IG don't you have to buy the platoon squad for your first troops selection? I could be wrong here.
Last edited by mace_ace on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Drool_bucket » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:28 am

mace_ace wrote:As for IG don't you have to buy the platoon squad for your first troops selection? I could be wrong here.

not any more.
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Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 am

Thanks Ian. That said why not dump some cultists for a Troops platoon? They could have heavy weapons and sit back on objectives.
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Postby tinfoil » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:26 am

It seems to me "Dark Apostles" could still be made Alpha Legionairic. Just think of them (and model them) not as "religious zealots" but as charismatic and elite Alpha Astartes planted cunningly among the cultists, training and preparing them to strike. Bringing them to the point that they will be dependable foot soldiers, not particularly well equipped (WS3), but hardened and dedicated to the cause (Ld10). Not exactly "Dark Apostles" -- more like "Dark Alphostles."

Infiltration by one or two agents, years in advance, to prepare the ground -- sounds like Alpha Legion to me.
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Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:47 pm

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