Cody's Chaos Attempt

Discuss your armies, how you want to use them, and how they fared in battle!

Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:01 pm

I'd disagree Fred. What you've done is come up with some changed/personal fluff to justify them being in the Alpha Legion. You surely can do it but I'm saying that I think it isn't appropriate fluff wise.
It's the same reason I'm not using a Dark Apostle in my Night Lords list. As a whole those two legions don't worship the gods.
"Jesus, I'm high maintenance" - NobleSavage
User avatar
mace_ace
Tacohammer
Tacohammer
 
Posts: 7581
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Needham, MA

Postby tinfoil » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:06 pm

Well, I'll stick to my position. In a codex that offers no hq or army-wide provisions for Night Lords (beyond Raptors/Warp Talons), you're taking an element of the codex and fitting its rule-set to generate an effect that creates a Night Lord narrative. Same with adopting Huron (who, of course, wasn't a Night Lord) as an hq.
"the closest thing we have to a nice guy is that asshole fred."
-Bruce of Bruce

"Oh, look at me! I have a bowling shirt on!!! I'm in a little toy club!!!"
-Exokan
User avatar
tinfoil
Dream-Crushing Jerk
Dream-Crushing Jerk
 
Posts: 4624
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: locked in here with you, locked in here with me

Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:10 pm

That's apples and oranges. Huron, while not an Alpha Legion choice, is just a lord and he happens to have a rule that's very fluffy for the AL.

The Dark Apostle is an HQ that, while not a NL or AL character, does have a specific fluff role and rules that back that up ; leading marine units with better Leadership or even weak ass cultists and bolstering them or whipping them into a fury. All while doing this through his faith.
"Jesus, I'm high maintenance" - NobleSavage
User avatar
mace_ace
Tacohammer
Tacohammer
 
Posts: 7581
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Needham, MA

Postby tinfoil » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:30 pm

mace_ace wrote:The Dark Apostle is an HQ that, while not a NL or AL character, does have a specific fluff role and rules that back that up ; leading marine units with better Leadership or even weak ass cultists and bolstering them or whipping them into a fury. All while doing this through his faith.


As I see it, the operative rule mechanic here is the boost in leadership. If the rule mechanic fits an army's narrative, then to me it works.
"the closest thing we have to a nice guy is that asshole fred."
-Bruce of Bruce

"Oh, look at me! I have a bowling shirt on!!! I'm in a little toy club!!!"
-Exokan
User avatar
tinfoil
Dream-Crushing Jerk
Dream-Crushing Jerk
 
Posts: 4624
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: locked in here with you, locked in here with me

Postby xxfltcom » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:28 pm

I like the list it is more along the lines with the character of the alpha legion. There really is no great way to in this codex to represent the the specialities of Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors. The Word Bearers are lucky that they were finally thrown a bone with the inclusion of the dark apostles.

I see the point of the allied IG, to get the astropath for the 2+ reserve roll on turn 2. But I think it is too many points for that ability. You could increase your long range fire power with those points.

I do agree with Mason that the Dark Apostle is not Alpha Legion fluff. But Those cultists are not alpha legion members, they are a tool of the alpha legion. May give them MOK? Trade in the dark apostle for an Undivided Lord that hangs around near them?
xxfltcom
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Roslindale

Postby the_trooper » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:28 pm

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA5_RH.pdf

I think this list is appropriately Alpha Legion, no?

Also, runs as a battle brother to the CSM and CD codecies.

Also, look at http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA5_RHFAQ.pdf

Archos would be your HQ as he is the best representation of a badass from Vraks.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/c/Characters.pdf

Or you could shoe horn it into the codex, I guess.
"I don't actually play Warhammer, I just talk about how awesome it is when I do play. You know, like BMW drivers and sex."
the_trooper
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: 'spergin' away at a LGS

Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Archos is actually really sweet. I've never seen him before.
"Jesus, I'm high maintenance" - NobleSavage
User avatar
mace_ace
Tacohammer
Tacohammer
 
Posts: 7581
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Needham, MA

Postby Thunderjaw » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:47 pm

I think this list is appropriately Alpha Legion, no?


No.


People miss the boat with the legion... they don't run "Cultists" like most people think of. Instead they run operative cells. An IG Armored Fist style squad would be more relevant. They subvert organizations within a population rather than the population themselves... they'll subvert the PDF or Arbites or a transportation Union then turn that on the other infrastructural parts.

Large groups of people chanting to the dark gods aren't their thing... but this Dex doesn't really allow for that, so you're stuck with what's there.

In the end, an Alpha Legion list is "anything legal". Everything else is just opinion and dust.
++$ Brad
User avatar
Thunderjaw
Mindless Soul
Mindless Soul
 
Posts: 6270
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:35 am
Location: Right here

Postby Drool_bucket » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:51 pm

Thunderjaw wrote:In the end, an Alpha Legion list is "anything legal". Everything else is just opinion and dust.

Not sure if this should be the opening line to a badass CSM song, or the closing line...
TAFK
User avatar
Drool_bucket
Mindless Soul
Mindless Soul
 
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:35 pm
Location: Arkham, Massachusetts

Postby the_trooper » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:58 pm

Thunderjaw wrote:
I think this list is appropriately Alpha Legion, no?

People miss the boat with the legion... they don't run "Cultists" like most people think of. Instead they run operative cells. An IG Armored Fist style squad would be more relevant. They subvert organizations within a population rather than the population themselves... they'll subvert the PDF or Arbites or a transportation Union then turn that on the other infrastructural parts.


Seige of Vraks is a post heresy rebellion started by Archos and supported by Deacon Mammon who both pushed Cardinal Xaphan over the edge.

I mean, what else is there?

The renegades of vraks are literally a PDF gone bad from the inside infiltration of the Alpha Legion.
"I don't actually play Warhammer, I just talk about how awesome it is when I do play. You know, like BMW drivers and sex."
the_trooper
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: 'spergin' away at a LGS

Postby mace_ace » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:00 pm

Thunderjaw wrote:
I think this list is appropriately Alpha Legion, no?


No.


People miss the boat with the legion... they don't run "Cultists" like most people think of. Instead they run operative cells. An IG Armored Fist style squad would be more relevant. They subvert organizations within a population rather than the population themselves... they'll subvert the PDF or Arbites or a transportation Union then turn that on the other infrastructural parts.


THIS^^^

Thunderjaw wrote:Large groups of people chanting to the dark gods aren't their thing... but this Dex doesn't really allow for that, so you're stuck with what's there.

In the end, an Alpha Legion list is "anything legal". Everything else is just opinion and dust.


I'll agree which is why I started the Dark Apostle discussion stating it was all subjective.
"Jesus, I'm high maintenance" - NobleSavage
User avatar
mace_ace
Tacohammer
Tacohammer
 
Posts: 7581
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Needham, MA

Postby Lucyth » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:07 pm

This is a really interesting conversation. And surprisingly civilized.

Now let me explain that my knowledge of Alpha Legion only extends so far as the book "Legion," the Lexicanum entries, Vraks, and other miscellaneous tidbits.

So, in my limited understanding, I was under the impression that the Alpha Legion contacted localized cults (or instigated them), organized them, and then sent them to destroy whatever thing/person/planet/etc. their mysterious goals required. The Alpha Legion would reinforce as necessary and take what they needed.

That's why I imagined Dark Apostles would be so important. Go-between guys who would manipulate and utilize Chaos fervor to instigate heretical riots and armies and point them in the right direction to fulfill the Legion's ends.

I knew that specialist operatives played a big part in the Alpha Legion, but I interpreted them as more background agents who wouldn't play a big role on the battlefield.

Perhaps I'm drawing in "old" fluff from earlier Chaos Codexii, or maybe I just misinterpreted several key points. In any case, this has given me a lot to think about and will probably result in a drastic list change. Utilizing what I've read, I may wind up with a Chaos/IG hybrid list.
ryltar wrote:I would hate to disappoint your cock Ian.
User avatar
Lucyth
Mr. Religion
Mr. Religion
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:15 pm
Location: Arlington, MA

Postby tinfoil » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:37 pm

Lucyth wrote:blah blah blah... surprisingly civilized... blah blah blah


I forgot to add: Mason's a stupid-head. And very probably an Imperial double agent who seeks only to weaken faith in the Ruinous Powers.

Either that or just the stupid-head part.
"the closest thing we have to a nice guy is that asshole fred."
-Bruce of Bruce

"Oh, look at me! I have a bowling shirt on!!! I'm in a little toy club!!!"
-Exokan
User avatar
tinfoil
Dream-Crushing Jerk
Dream-Crushing Jerk
 
Posts: 4624
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: locked in here with you, locked in here with me

Postby Brutal Legend » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:31 pm

I think your list should change, not because there's something inherently wrong with it fluff-wise, and I'm not saying there is, but because it's good to have a few extra units you can swap in and out. Try different combinations of things over your compulsory stuff that you're always going to take.

I think you've got a really good framework and tweaking it ad naseum and arguing about what's fluffy is largely irrelevent, but I totally get the need to debate the finer points that have been made about fluff composition.

So, in summary, you are 85% there so leave yourself a little room for change as your image of chaos marines evolves.

And can I just throw this in the mix? Cultists aren't that great. They will not be kicking the shit out of TH/SS terminators. You might be spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about a throw away unit.

Discuss.
"I was not alone, for foolhardiness was not then mixed with that love of the grotesque and the terrible which has made my career a series of quests for strange horrors in literature and in life." H.P. Lovecraft, "The Lurking Fear" (1923)

Jon
____________________________

http://jonzucchi.blogspot.com/

http://voidwarbfg.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Brutal Legend
Mindless Soul
Mindless Soul
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:44 pm
Location: Titan

Postby Lucyth » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:26 am

With this:

Brutal Legend wrote:and arguing about what's fluffy is largely irrelevant


You're telling me you're not a fun opponent to play against. 50% of my enjoyment of this hobby is the fluff and fantasy.

This:

Brutal Legend wrote:Cultists aren't that great. They will not be kicking the shit out of TH/SS terminators.


Is telling me that you struggled with math as a kid. Why would you send a 145 point unit against a 200+ point unit and expect it to kick ass?
ryltar wrote:I would hate to disappoint your cock Ian.
User avatar
Lucyth
Mr. Religion
Mr. Religion
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:15 pm
Location: Arlington, MA

PreviousNext

Board index Discussion Armies, Tactica, Battle Reports, and List Critique


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron